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 Author | Topic: Pack Question (Read 614 times) |
ethomas
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« Reply #15 on Nov 6, 2009, 1:53am » | |
We Pack and blocks and elbows is essentially where we would be.
We scout and prepare for what a team wants to get out of the 1-4 low or single-double set. If they are trying to isolate the ballhandler primarily we can help more, if they are trying to get their best shooter a 3 we help less & sag off the ball more. We want to know the ball handler's go to move, can he create/finish with both hands? And who can really shoot it?
We see the single-double in league a lot and tweek our defense to crowd the shooters side and force the ball that direction.
The only time we saw a 1-4 low this summer was against a team with a really good PG - he didn't score and they missed some contested 3's in the corners. The pass was late to them becuase he was really trying to score 1st pass 2nd. We did go 1-1-3 1x and they knocked down the open 3 in the corner on a bad rotation.
If you watch some NBA games you'll see them doing something similar called "tilting" where they play helpside defense against Top or Side isolations at the Blocks-Elbows-Nail markers.
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coachj444
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« Reply #16 on Nov 6, 2009, 1:16pm » | |
How do you pack-style coaches deal with screens? I know Bennett says they never switch but I was thinking about switching everything for the following reasons...
1. I don't feel mismatches will hurt you so much in a pack defense. If a big defending a small on the perimeter he has help if he gets beat going to the basket and if a small is defending a big inside there's plenty of help around
2. Since everyone is packed near the lane I don't feel you have to worry about teams slipping screens and going to the basket because you have so many bodies in there to help guard the cutter.
3. Your man now looks more like a match-up zone and teams often have trouble attacking this type of defense. If they run their zone stuff they will probably be somewhat stationary and easy to guard and if they run their man attack you're rendering screens and cutting ineffective.
Thoughts on switching everything vs. no switches??
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ethomas
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« Reply #17 on Nov 6, 2009, 1:56pm » | |
I think its hard to switch some screens in the Pack. We like to extend/help/hedge off the screener and chase the cutter this typically prevents a curl/backcut/slip.
If you switch in the Pack I think you are vulnerable to flare/fade type action on simple down screens. Which can lead to no one closing out, 2 closing out...guys missing blockouts, and other issues caused by being out of position.
In Pack because you are helping off the screener & chasing off most screens the curl, back cut, slip options are not effective.
If you aren't worried about mismatches I would switch and deny more so than switch and sag. The sagging switching can get confusing on defense when screens & cuts begin to look the same. Not just for open shots but for putbacks. I think if kids aren't denying when they switch they get real lazy "Not my man, we didn't switch yet." : "That's his man we switched"
Bob Kloppenberg (hooptactics.com / SOS Defense), Wayne Walters (drd, Swarm), & Rick Majerus (man defense notes) all have excellent resources on switching. I have switched in the past, it was real successful until we played teams where matchups mattered, we don't have the matchup issues in the Pack and personnel wise that's important to us.
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coachkd
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« Reply #18 on Nov 6, 2009, 2:33pm » | |
flare/fade action is a concern, but for me, at the hs level in north nj, very few, if any teams run that action...maybe a concern somewhere else though. I would think in this area the backscreen is used much more.
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hoopdom
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Karma: 6 | | Re: Pack Question
« Reply #19 on Nov 6, 2009, 9:23pm » | |
How about defending a shooter that runs from one side to another on the baseline and then curls into the middle. How do you defend that in the pack?
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ethomas
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« Reply #20 on Nov 7, 2009, 2:31am » | |
We would guard it the same way we guard a down screen.
We would chase the shooter with the screeners defenders helping up the lane to extend the cur higher.
We will actually run closer to the baseline than the shooter and right on their hip until we get through the screens. Then we position ourselves more towards help.
By extending or helping towards the ball we force the curl more towards the elbow, which is a tough pass if the offense is anywhere near the 3pt line up top.
This tactic allows us to be in positon on the catch to contain & contest.
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dwilly93
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« Reply #21 on Nov 7, 2009, 3:55am » | |
Ethomas,
What would be the downside of going underneath or ballside of screens. Would it be the fade? If it is the fade action, would that not be a concern whether you are packing or pressuring?
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ethomas
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« Reply #22 on Nov 7, 2009, 12:18pm » | |
You just give up an open 3 everytime you allow a fade. We don't want any open shots.
Our rule is if the screen is inside go outside (chase), if the screen is outside go inside. Always chase a shooter & on double screens.
5 out Motion w/ wing to baseline down screens
-if they are trying to screen near the block we go outisde
-if they are trying to screen near the corner we go inisde (fade isn't really a threat because the screen gets in the way)
4 out Motion w/ G-F down screen
-If the screen is set in the lane chase
-if its set wide near 3 pt line go inside
3 out Motion w/ Point-Wing down screen
-If the screen is set at the FT line chase
-if its set wide near 3 pt line go inside
Back screens we want to jump to the ball and be in position early
Flex
-Block is in a physical 3/4 deny so the screen can't move up the lane
-Flex cut defender goes highside to be in position to deny the cutter on the other side of the screen
-Extend of the down screen
- chase the cutter (flex screener) off the down screen, once you clear the screen start moving towards the nail/midline not your man
Its very important to EXTEND off the screener otherwise the curl is wide open.
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dwilly93
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« Reply #23 on Nov 11, 2009, 9:47pm » | |
If the rationale for playing topside in the post, is because you are forcing the ball middle, then what do you do in the pack if the offense splits the two defenders. Do you help with the post and rotate? Any help would be appreciated.
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ethomas
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« Reply #24 on Nov 11, 2009, 11:42pm » | |
I don't have an answer really to your original question - What to do if the on ball defender and the help defense both get beat?
Other than hope he misses I don't have a real answer because anyime there is a split/blow-by you are a man short essentially. So that is a potential putback, dish, kickout opportunity.
For example wing gets beat middle BAD in a set with 2 low posts a weakside wing & corner: Our corner defender could help on the weakside post if he stepped up and the help defender who got split up top could hopefully get to the corner in time on a kick out.
But what we have happen typically on a bad beat is the shot goes up over the helping post and the guard helping from the corner blocks out the post & the post still gets the board because he is 6'6" and our guard is 5'10". Somedays when we are "really good" our guard is late and tries to block the posts shot...3 points.
That's why we play straight up and try and take away a players strength and just stay in front of him. We will jab at the ball handler on ball and in help to throw him off a little. But we really work at just working real hard, disciplined, & smart in our stance. Whenever I have tried to teach "forcing" the kids over do it and get beat bad the direction we are forcing. Now we emphasize "not getting beat" (baseline for a layup or middle to the FT line) and will remind/point out the oppnents strengths (righty, 2 hard dribbles left - spin move back for the right hand shot) and where they are on the court (baseline corner, top of key).
If blow-bys are an issue maybe its just they aren't using their stance or hands properly? Maybe trying to force middle too much? Maybe not aggressive enough in help?
We do practice rotations if the post has to help (baseline drive), we don't want this to happen, but sometimes it does. This also compliments our 1-1-3 zone.
Hope this helps coach
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jjthompson
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Karma: 1 | | Re: Pack Question
« Reply #25 on Nov 27, 2009, 5:24pm » | |
Does anyone know if it is leagal to have a pack line on your basketball court during basketball games?
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